jeff mikels

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• Rich on What if God chooses not to “elect” my children?

  God bless you my brother. Thank you for taking time to share. May neither one of us walk with pride in our lives over this issue, but may we be humble and tremble at His word. I pray we have sharpened each other and become more Christlike through our conversation. May Jesus be glorified in both of our lives, and may the Lamb that was slain receive the reward of His suffering.

• bob baids on How should Christians live out God’s ideal of justice?

  Wow...great response...sounds like a sermon series in the making... love to get deeper... thanks

• Jeff Mikels on What if God chooses not to “elect” my children?

  Thanks Rich for your comments. You are right that we should agree to disagree. In fact, people have been agreeing to disagree on this very topic for thousands of years. However, the biggest disagreements on this issue come from one side not truly understanding the other side, and from neither side truly understanding the middle road taken by the overall text of the Bible. Therefore, I need to clarify just a couple items from your comments so that we have greater clarity on both positions and greater clarity on the middle-road taken by the Scripture.

  First of all, I AM willing to say that some people have no chance to come to God depending on how you define chance. If by chance you mean it is a hypothetical theoretical possibility, then I say that everyone has a chance to come to God because God has given free will to each creature. The Bible clearly indicates that everyone has a theoretical possibility of choosing God (Romans 1, John 8:31-32). If however, you mean by chance the reality of what is actually able to happen, then I say that no one has a chance because in fact sin has enslaved everyone. I am not alone in this. Both Jesus and Paul claim the same thing. (Romans 6, John 8:34-36).

  Both Jesus and Paul also indicate that every human being has already rejected God, is in a present state of rebellion, and will never choose God unless God does a work to draw that person to himself (John 6:44, Romans 9:16-18, Ephesians 1:11-12). However, the Bible also indicates that humans have the responsibility to choose God (Ephesians 1:13, etc.).

  I operate on one assumption and one assumption only, and it is this: if the Bible clearly teaches two concepts that appear on the surface to be contradictory, it is because I am unwilling or unable to see the relationship, but both must be true. In this case, I believe the Bible teaches two concepts of human responsibility and human inability. In response to that dilemma, the Bible clearly teaches that some are chosen and some believe.

  My conclusion, along with Paul in Romans 9-11 and countless scholars through the centuries is that God chooses first, and we choose in response.

  Finally, I do have the guts to say that some people will never get to heaven because they continue to reject God. I also have the guts to say that those same people would be able to accept God if God chose to work in their lives. I finally have the guts to say that if God chooses NOT to save someone, he has that right.

  I don't believe any of this because it makes the most logical sense to me. I only believe what I believe because it is the only way I can see to reconcile the Biblical teaching on the subject. I'm committed to balancing the two notions of human responsibility and sinful inability because the Bible teaches both.

  And therefore, I proclaim grace to any and all who will hear because grace through the death of Christ is the only thing that can save us (Ephesians 2:8-9).

• Rich on What if God chooses not to “elect” my children?

  I appreciate the time you have taken to converse with me about these issues. I sincerely do. At this point, I agree to disagree, and do so respectfully, as you deserve nothing less.

  You and I both know, if "in our sin, we have all chosen hell for ourselves" (including newborns? 1 year olds?)...and "God in His grace has chosen to reach out to some of us in rescue"...you are not willing to say the obvious thing your beliefs are saying...if we have chosen hell, and God has only reached out to some, then the other "some" have no chance, because they cannot come to Him unless He reaches out to them. You are not willing to say that, although that is exactly what you are saying.

  By believing as you do, you have to operate on an assumption...lots of them actually. I do not have to operate on assumptions - I know Jesus died for all, as you state yourself since you believe He died for your children, whether they are chosen or not. The Bible clearly says that we can “know” we have eternal life; we do not have to assume. I know He loves the people of Lebanon, which He died for them, and that He has told us to pray that He, the Lord of the harvest, would send out laborers into that field, and that He sends them forth...you believe if they are chosen, they are chosen, and will go to heaven, whether the laborers go or not. I believe unless we go, some will die without Him.

  I do not worry either if a person decides to reject Christ. We know that some plant…some water…but God brings the growth. But, what if your child, or someone else you love, decides to reject Christ? Do you merely say, “I worry not…I am only the ambassador?” Can you really look at a loved one, and say "I worry not" that you have rejected Christ? Maybe so, because you assume.

  You wonder why this issue is so important to me. Why is it so important to you? Why do you operate on all these assumptions? You do so, because it is one of the most, if not the most, important issues of our walk with Christ. That is the same reason why it is so important to me – all of life is shaped by what we believe about these things.

  Am I worried about you and your relationship with your children? No, I’m not worried about it, but it concerns me. Not your ability as a father, or your significance, or anything like that; but what are you teaching them when you lead them to operate on assumption rather than assurance? It’s important because you will answer for the influence you have over the local body of believers you lead. I hold myself to the same standard. I genuinely care, and am in no way desiring to win an argument.

  I end with what I said earlier. You and I both know, if "in our sin, we have all chosen hell for ourselves" and "God in His grace has chosen to reach out to some of us in rescue"...you are not willing to say the obvious thing your beliefs are saying...if we have chosen hell, and God has only reached out to some, then the other "some" have no chance, because they cannot come to Him unless He reaches out to them (draws them). You are not willing to say that, although that is exactly what you are saying. Why? I just wish those who hold to this line of thought would have the guts to say it.

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• What if God chooses not to “elect” my children?

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